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CYF respond to Celia Lashlie's claims

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Wed, 01 Sep 2010 7:30p.m.

By Ray Smith, Head of Child, Youth and Family.

I respect Celia Lashlie and the help she is providing to ex-prisoners. Her advocacy work means she is coming from the perspective of the parents she represents but she is not the only one that cares.

Child, Youth and Family is required by law to put the interests of the child or young person first. Everyday our social workers are working with families, where children and young people are at risk of serious harm or violence. Their job is to fully understand all the things going on for these youngsters and identify the best ways of keeping them safe.

Celia Lashlie is working with two women who have extensive histories with us and in whose lives she believes we are unjustly interfering. This appears to be the genesis of her beef with CYF.

What is very important to remember here is that we don't act alone in these situations. We don't have "unbridled power" at all. We work with the Family Court which finally determines whether a child should be permanently removed from parents, and which is empowered to determine whether, in the event of a dispute, a temporary removal of a child is justified. The court is also involved in approving access and supervision arrangements for parents.

Psychologists and independent lawyers appointed to represent the child, are also involved. Importantly, so are extended family members throughout the Family Group Conference process. There are many checks and balances, as well as avenues for complaint and appeal independent of CYF.

A child in one of these women's care was horrifically abused and then killed. The mother was convicted of manslaughter. Because of this history, we have taken a cautious approach in regard to her access to, and supervision of, a new child. We stand by our actions.

CYF has been involved with “Jane's” children, for nearly 19 years. From 2000 there have been ongoing concerns for the wellbeing and safety of the two youngest children.

Every effort has been made to keep this family together with Family Whanau Agreements, Family Group Conferences and Strengthening Families Meetings to assist in promoting change for the family as well as ensuring extensive community supports have been put in place - these included ACC counselling for “Jane” and the involvement of a Family Support Agency, couple counselling, use of a health camp and parenting programmes.

In 2008, after all else had been exhausted, the two children were taken into care. These kids are now thriving and are happy in their new foster family. Our view after many years trying to help these adults to be parents is that these children are better off being permanently placed with this foster family.

The mother will continue to be able to visit and spend time with the children if they are permanently placed with their current caregivers - as long as this poses no risks to the children.

This process must be very difficult for the mother. I’m pleased she has people willing to support her and wants to improve her own life.

But because of choices “Jane” has made in her life we now have to decide what's in the children’s best interests and make recommendations to the Family Court, which will have the final say. We're focused on the children - as we are legally required to do - and we're not prepared to gamble with their safety.

It is devastating for children to be separated from their parents, even when they have been very badly abused. This is why we are very focused on the need to keep them in contact with their parents where possible - and to place them with, or keep them in regular contact with, extended family.

If a child has to be removed from their parents however, research shows that lengthy periods of uncertainty over their future creates more problems. It is not ideal to keep them "in limbo" for long periods. Every child needs a nurturing home they can call their own and where they can build attachments. If they can’t live with their parents, our job is to find a family where they can have a home.

The sensationalist claims being made by Celia Lashlie are simply wrong. Her accusation that we act with “arrogance and impunity” and that we are destroying families and putting children at risk is untrue.

The sweeping accusations Celia Lashlie has made are deeply disappointing and quite unfair to the staff of CYF who work with children and families to help keep them safe. Ms Lashlie has never approached me personally to discuss them, which I would have welcomed.

We currently receive about 125,000 notifications a year. Last year we involved ourselves directly in the lives of just over 20,000 families because of serious concerns raised about children.

In the vast majority of cases we worked with the families to keep the children safe. Last year just 1,307 children were removed from their families. We don't take that decision lightly. We are often criticised for not having removed children in some instances as well.

Social workers operate with great courage and compassion often in very difficult environments and are dedicated to helping our most vulnerable children and young people.

They might not get everything right all of the time, but in my experience they throw their hearts into trying to help families day-in and day-out.

Ms Lashlie uses extreme and historic cases like Maka Renata and Bailey Kuariki as an example of CYF failure and to create an impression they are representative of children in CYF care. They are not and the comparison is unjust.

Almost all of the kids in our care are brave and determined, despite the set-backs they have endured - which can include being labelled "CYF kids". The vast majority do not go out and hurt others, they go on to be decent members of society.

These cases date back to 1999 and 2001 respectively. We accept that we should have done better with these young people, who were also let down by their families, and we publically apologised to Maka Renata in 1999.

It's just not true to suggest we're ripping children out of their homes and planting them in so-called "nice middle-class families".

In the 2009/10 year about 3,300 children and young people lived with extended family/whanau or with foster carers at any one time. Of this group about 1,700 – just over half – were living with extended family or whanau.

If we need to remove a child from their parents, the first thing our social workers do is to try and find extended family members to take them into their homes. It is only when we can't find a home within the extended family that they will be placed with non-family.

We have to make some of the toughest judgement calls of any agency I know. We have to enter families' homes and lives, often in distressing circumstances and make some very difficult calls.

Birthday Visit.
In 2008 we could have communicated better with “Jane” over her wish to have her children in her home to mark their birthdays. The request was made two days beforehand. She was however able to visit the children. We have endeavoured to ensure subsequent birthdays have been well-managed in terms of access for “Jane”.

“Jane was put in state care and raped as a 14 year-old.”
We have one record which shows that “Jane” reported she had been raped during a period when she was living with her mother.

Psychologist Visit.
We are unsure of the length of the visit which we assume relates to an assessment in August 2009. Ms Lashlie raised concerns about this assessment which was for one child only. As a result a further independent psychological assessment was completed in March 2010 for the other child. It too concluded the children should not be returned to “Jane”.

Number of children in permanent care.
In the two years to June 2010, 389 children were given a ‘home for life’ with foster carers and people within their own (extended) family. In the year ending June 2010 199 children and young people were legally adopted in New Zealand.

Further information:

The front page of CYF's website has links to two recent documents which may be of interest. One is the recently released Why You Should Care document, which provides figures and details and children in care and our practice.

The second relates to Home for Life, which details our new permanency package.

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Comments [55]

Jane
14 Jan 2011 7:11p.m.

Can anyone tell me what the process is to reinstate an 'interim custody order' under section 11, that was discharged due to the fact I did not recieve the letter till after the discharge because I was out of town? I am in a crises situation whereby the 'interim custody order' states it is as good as having 'full custody'for as long or as short as I would like, unless my daughter decided to contest it,to which she never has. Once again my grandchildren are at risk and I have to do my damndest to protect them. Can anyone give me some advice

Anne
17 Nov 2010 5:44p.m.

Are people crazy? do you all think that they should just get rid of CYF ? there are so many kids out there that are living in terrible conditions, there is no excuse for it in NZ, this isnt a third world country! So if children are gonig to bed hungry or beaten at night then I fully support them being taken to people that can actually care for them and provide their basic human rights! And parents are given so many chances to EARN the right to have their children back but dont because they arnt going to give cyfs the statisfaction, which is a load of crap!

rachel
09 Nov 2010 9:31p.m.

i have been involved with cyfs since before the birth of my son in 2006,all i can say about cyfs is they are the biggest adoption agency of the country,to me my son was everything,i had a cyfs worker yell at me in front of my son in my home for having a few dishes by the sink,they banged on my door and i felt quite threatened,they looked in my sons wardrobe and in the kithchen opening the oven door,the cyfs worker walked into my room the day he was born and said i had 6 days,she consistently lied and got caught out at the group meetings,she made me feel so bullied.i responded by standing up for myself like any mum would do when her child was being taken,i yelled at her and threatened her,because to me she was trying to steal my baby,and eventually they did,they extended his visits from 1 week,2 2 weeks then punished me for being upset by pushing it out to 3 weeks 4 one hour supervised.the reports when i had him were generally good to my knowledge but even something like a flooded bath was a cause for 'concern' which made me even more anxious.it was the straw that broke the camels back.not all of us are as strong as others.i broke and asked for a brake cause i was exhausted and my mum and dad wouldnt help out.that was it for the relationship between me and my son,systematically destroyed.he was put in permanent placement with the family of the father who abused me.i dont have a problem with them as they are nice people and stuck in the middle but they have not made it easy for me either.i cant explain how this has changed me as a person.i will never be the same again.he was my hope.
the fgcs were like being under the firing squad,and ive spoked to so many other mums who have been thru similar things,all i can say is do everything they say even if u feel diff. so my opinion of cyfs is if they keep doing what theyre doing things will keep going the same,kids with attachment issues,children longing to see their mums and dads,mums and dads pining for theyre children.broken hearts.some parents dont want to be parents,the signs are usually there way before the child ends up on the news,but everyones too scared to do something.for whatever reason.DO SOMETHING,if u see a mum or dad abusing a child go up to them and tell them to stop,or u will report it,keep ann eagle eye on it,a child deserves to be innocent and to be brought up safely,if they keep doing unfortunately u may have to report it to cyfs.but there are probably hundreds,maybe thousands of mothers under cyfs who want to be a mum,and they are ready to.and they deserve a chance because they are the biological parents of the child. and if u want to try it shows u love your kids and u want the best for them.i will never see my sons milestones.i will never really hold him as a child,he will never come to me and ask me about homework,i know he loves his new family,but it has destroyed me.i am so in pain over this.

Not going to take it
30 Oct 2010 7:42p.m.

There is an abyssal zone of extensively misformed opinion among (perhaps only 10%, perhaps more) cyfs cases where families are interferred with. It makes me feel sick, scared sick. Hopeless that they wont listen. To bad they know it all, isn't it? And it appears too, that I shall drown if I attempt to reach the bottom to pull this plug, because all they see is what they want to make of it.
Wether it be 10% or more it is extremely significant, and can not go ignored. I am very appreciative of everyone who has ever stood for what is right in these circumstances, and indeed mostly those who continue to stand against this current. Thankyou

Mary
21 Oct 2010 12:29p.m.

Yes, Sometimes CYFS react too quickly. Yes, sometimes CYFS react too slowly. They are human, bound by laws and policies with social workers carrying high case loads and a seriously stressful job. All social workers who work for CYFS do so because they care about the safety of children. Some do their job better than others, just as some parents care for their children better than others. Why does society quickly point the finger at CYFS when it is the parents and carers that are responsible for abusing the children. It is extended family who see the abuse and turn a blind eye, who say, thats not my business! They say, I got beaten when I was a kid, nothing wrong with me. They say, my dad beat my mum up, nothing wrong with me. Parents need help and support but the family are too busy caring for themselves and their own nuclear family to care about the extended family. The neighbour is making a notification to CYFS instead of offering to care for the children to give a sole parent a break, instead of baking some kai and taking it over to the hungry children, instead of giving the mum and her kids a ride to school instead of judging her because she is walking in the rain and her children have no shoes.
Instead of abusing the CYFS social workers, how about finding out who the caring, professional and supportive social workers are and give them your praise and support. We are all very quick to tear down but we are slow to build up. Where is the love in our communities? Are we too concerned with the latest car, the biggest flat screen tv and who is playing in the All Blacks next year, to care about the children and families in our neighbourhoods who need our love and support.

Sue
09 Oct 2010 1:17a.m.

I totally agre with Ray Smith. Celia Lashlie talks continually about the 2 worst cases that happened in New Zealand 10 years ago! She also talked in her interview of walking with "Jane" for 4 years??? why then did CYFS have to step in 2 years ago and remove these two young children, Celia's guidance obviously wasn't working. It's all well and good to get on T.V. and give a distorted view of a situation but keep in mind this woman doesn't even live in the same town as Jane, and as she happily passes judgement on the foster family looking after these two young children, also keep in mind she has never even met these people. Unless you are or have fostered children you will not know how much your lives (and that of your family) get thrown into chaos. Children deserve to be nurtured, protected and loved. Also don't forget Celia says "Jane" has been in this situation for 19 years and has older children who have also been through the system. How long should a mother be given to try to put things right? 19 years? The early years for a child are the most important and they should have a fair chance.

michelle
04 Oct 2010 8:45p.m.

and with the poor decisions i've made i have given the people involved being my backstabbing twofaced socalled friend and cyfs and the police the ammo to say "see told you so"when infact it's just circumstances and a result of what potentially damaging power cyfs can do and none of which until cyfs uplifted my kids more than likely would not of happened.and i don't understand how they can manipulate people into agreeing with them and then twist it to justify their actions,by then is usually too late,so we can stand here and fight them but nothing will be heard,they'll brush it aside,because that's what they do and it'll fall on deaf ears,and they'll carry on about their day as if it's just another day,congratulate themselves on their false sense of reality only to move on to the next unsuspecting family and tear them apart and not answer to nobody,i'm frustrated with the fact that i even have to play the game just to get my kids back,all that says to me is i'm guilty,it's complete bullshit what they put you through without any real justification and without solid evidence,only heresy,but you really do have to play the game ,do what they ask and asap,otherwise they see no change,but they really have no idea about the real world,and my kids were my world my everything and safety was my no1 priority,but to have it ripped away because of nasty jealous people,and because i tried to keep my kids safe even though it meant keeping them away from certain family members to which they were quick to listen to someone else and judge me and now realise they've made a mistake well none of that can undo the damage it's done to me and mine,even the sorry's dont make up for it because if they weren't too busy hating on me none of this would've happened,so my advice is play the game and fast,get your kids back ,then make you're next move,know who your true friends are,and remember you can choose your friends but not your family,but that they dont need to live on your doorstep either.

michelle
04 Oct 2010 7:52p.m.

my heart goes out to all parents who are involved in cyfs one way or another especially where their kids have been uplifted and without doing any homework and how they dont have to justify their actions and how they have the power to uplift anyones kids without doing any thorough investigations first,and how they can put words into kids mouths and twist their words into something so dreadful,and when told by a cyfs worker one namely eileen bootsma and in the company of another cyfs worker,both of the invercargill branch,and how she can sit there and say to me how she has "such a vivid imagination and thinks the worst out of any situation"and go on quite happily about her day like shes done a good deed and also say to me sarcastically how I've left messages on her phone which was my own truthful concerns about the heart wrenching effects it has on my kids not only by me but also the opinions of their grandparents and her reply was this,that "oh your poor boy is crying for you"a cry admittedly is a cry but these were more than that and the effects have been hes now lashing out at others,including his grandmother and his baby brother,something of which i've taught him to love not to hurt and cyfs sit there with total ignorance and smurks,i've been through so much these past 6 months and nothing which i'd ever wish on anyone,not even my own worst enemy,unless of course they truly deserve it,and there are few out there that do,ecspecially those one's that pose as friend's and are quick to point the finger,when they know that they're own backyards are worse,and they are usually the jealous one's who know it,and that you are merely a distraction to there own dysfunctional way of life,and will gladly put doubt into the ears of anyone willing to listen,whether it be genuinely concerned family members who may have personal grievances with you already and anyone else they can manipulate,this is the predicament i'm in and as a result i have made some extremely poor decisions.

Jamlee
20 Sep 2010 11:07p.m.

I am a single mother. It would rip my heart to pieces to lose my kids. I fear that at anytime, for any reason, CYF can come into my home and steal my children away from me!! Why do I have this fear ?? Because I have heard story after story of this happening !!! Its tragic. I am not perfect, Im not always nice, and I get frustrated and stressed with my kids. But I love them more than anything. I often feel alone in trying to do the best for my kids. I won't ask for help, I won't tell anyone when I'm having a hard time with my kids, I won't let on theres any problem, because if I do I could lose my kids !!! That may seem far fetched but thats been the reality for alot of other parents.. Mums need support

shakeitup
17 Sep 2010 7:08a.m.

definitly needs an independent complaints authority. I suggest to everyone who is having issues (fathers in particular, but not only just fathers) to have a look at the work Graeme Axford is doing in Greymouth. I trust you will all find something of interest amongst pages listed under his name when u do a google search.
En ough of the crazy behaivour cyfs, enough!!!!!

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