Church dean 'concerned' at Christians' pro-smacking 'attitude'

Suppose you're pro-gay as well Dean? Oh how the Anglican church has gone off track.

Smacking is not abuse. Abuse was illegal under the past law, and maybe there needed some guidance on "reasonable force". The new s 59 was over the top. The law now is confusing (you need a legal opinion to know the situations a smack is legal) - there are 4 legitimate situations to smack, but overidden by the next clause which states that force for correction is not allowed, and that this overrides the previous clause. The referendum was fair, some people have called it confusing, but a legal professor from Akl Uni said it is fine. The results are in. Landslide. And everyone knows that this new s 59 does not protect children that are at threat of abuse. It messes with good families. Get it right, fix the political mess created by the last coalition agreement.

Glad to see someone in church leadership standing up for the children of New Zealand, because when it comes down to it I can't believe that Jesus would ever smack a child.

In reply to Alien.
So you and Dean Ross Bay indicate it is non-Christian to smack. So why is it the generations that have been spared the rod now actually display the most un-Christian attributes.
You say "what you see today in adults, teenagers, and children are all from being raised by the attitudes of smacking a child to correct them". By that you mean the abhorrent behaviour shown by the last two or three generations.
The fact is, it is those very generations that have been raised under the social experiments of the last thirty years that led to the steady diet of kindness and a do-what-you-like-and-don't-chastise upbringing. They are the historical evidence of what happens when children are not brought into line. They have grown into generally a very angry, brutish, and arrogant demographic. You say so yourself.
They are the ones that generally show the most selfish and rude behaviour (by your own admission).
Their attitude is one of self-absorption and shallowness that leaves most right minded people speechless.
I agree it is un-Christian to beat/thrash/batter/attack anyone, but to smack a child as an attention-getter to bring them into line is just plain good parenting and ultimately good for creating a "Christian" society.

Alien
Seems to me you dont have any children and if you do then i can bet you they are unruly. The law has been around for 1 year???? I think not coporal punishment has been out of our schooling systems for a lot longer than that. I wish we could have that law changed aswell. I got the rod in school and I can tell you I respected my teacher. Nowadays the teachers are not respected. Look how the youngsters get drunk on the week ends then beat up on a poor single guy making his way home, I have seen youngsters spitting on old ladies in Auckland. In my day I would never have dreamed of doing that or else. I did my national service and when I did wrong I was punished maybe not a smack but probibaly was worse. It's all about respecting the one who guides you through life.

The kids of today have it far too easy. 15years old and can be in control of a vehicle, I ask you with tears in my eyes. FAR TOO PC I tell you.

THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN JOHN.

Good on you phil very very well said.

Phil, the problem with your statement is this law is, what, a year old. Take a look around, what you see today in adults, teenagers, and children are all from being raised by the attitudes of smacking a child to correct them.

Before Ross Bay comments for Christians perhaps he should confirm he is a Christian???

Test for Ross!

1. Ross Do you believe in God, 1 God and a God who Judges Sin with Damnation and Forgives sinners who submit to him?

2. Do you believe the Bible is the infallible word of God and consistant with science in its entirity...and that apparent contradictions are the result of incomplete knowledge as opposed to biblical errors?

3. Do you beleive in Genesis? Literally!?

4. Do you believe in Exodus including a whole lot of Israelites walking through a sea that parted to let them through and crashed down upon those that sought to capture them or wipe them from the face of the earth?

5. Do you believe the only legitimate expression of sex is between a man and a woman that commit to continue that relationship for the rest of their mutually existant lives.

6. Or are you just a Clown tickling ears of people who want the comfort of being good religious people but none of the responsibilities?


Answer these things Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, and No! and I will start to take you seriously as being a Christian rather than a Paid Religion Pedlar.

Question 7. Do you believe God made a mistake in including Proverbs 23 vs 13 in the Bible or NOT!!!! Compare your answer to your answer to Question 2 to see if you are a Liar or Not.

Your Church has NO Credibility at all amongst true Christians and few would define you as Christian except the likes of Hellen Clark who used you at her convenience to justify her atheistic Oops Agnostic views.

Few would call the Church of England Christian except those who groan in your pews to hear your heretical sermons and those that believe Christianity is a Santa claus club of a imaginary Spaghetti monster in the sky that wishes nice things on every thing and sees no evil anywhere.
Repent, Stop lying against the truth.
And BTW
What have Christians Got to do with this Referendum any way?
87% of NZ ARE NOT CHRISTIANS!!

What gives this dean the right to say "many Christians". Has he gone out and done a study on the way all christians think.I for one am a chritian that believes the bible is the word of God and would strongly suggest that this dean read his scripture.One example that come to mind is proverbs 22.6 and 22.15 just 2 of many that talk of a parents DUTY to disapline there child so as to lead them on the right path.I think that this referendum is a clear indication of the stength of feeling on this subject in this country and I believe that John Key ingnores this at his peril.I for one am a National supporter who will not vote National again if this law is not repealed because that makes them no better than Labour who are notorios for not listening to the opinions of the majority and the voice of the people.I suggest all National voters who voted No take the same stance and you may see some action.

Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Proverbs 23 vs 13. As ancient as the Proverbs are if we just looked at the simplicity of them, and the relevance of them in todays age, perhaps they would make us better people.