Full transcript: Macsyna King's Campbell Live interview
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 7:30p.m.
Full transcript of the Macsyna King interview
John: You lost your boys. The coroner is absolutely explicit they were in the sole custody and care of their father. People have said things about you that would suggest you killed your babies. The coroner is very clear that not only did you not hurt them, you weren't anywhere near them when they were hurt so what do you want to say to people today?
Macsyna: The cruelty, the taunts, the horrible words spoken, the threats on me and my family were for nothing. I was judged before I was given a chance. I was accused of things I never did. Because I was never charged with the murder of my sons, I feel like I was bait and I was able to be attacked by the media, the public, on the internet, face-to-face, at a shop, in doctors, everywhere I went and this has echoed in my life for six years and it's been torment and torture and horrible and I don't know how some of you people who have done these things can live with yourselves. If you knew how I felt, if you knew what it was like to wake up every day and wish yourself not to live in this world. This is the result of people in this world who have not known nothing just judging me. They've been hurtful. It's wrong. It's wrong. It's hurtful, it's painful. It's as painful today as it happened six years ago when my sons died. I've never been able to mourn properly. I'm grateful this coroner has found these things and said without a shadow of a doubt he is responsible, that the police did everything they should have done. They charged the right person and not me.
John: The coroner said in his own words there is not a skerrick of evidence that Ms King was at the house when the babies suffered their injuries. You had no motive to kill your sons and you didn't do so. He says that Chris in his evidence was unreliable. That it conflicted and on many occasions it was completely untrue. If we go through what people said about you they said why were you so silent and why did you not help the police. When your babies were dying and had died why didn't you help police.
Macsyna: I did help them. I helped them as soon as they asked me to help. I spoke to them two days after my sons were buried. I went with my lawyer and we gave at least 26 pages of a statement of evidence that I've never changed to this day. I've always helped the police. I've never ever denied anything they've asked of myself or my lawyer. When they've needed statements we co-operated every time and I've never changed my statement even now right here to this day I've never changed it, I've always helped.
John: Two days after your babies funeral you gave a 26 page statement to police?
Macsyna: yes. With my lawyer present.
John: And you've never varied from that statement? The coroner absolutely accepts your evidence.
John: There were other things said about you and I think a lot of those things arose because you always told the police the truth that wasn't flattering about yourself. For example you told the police you used P and people seized on that and said you were a terrible mother, an evil woman. How many times did you use P?
Macsyna: I tried it one time.
John: And you told the police this?
Macsyna: I told the police that. I told them when, who I was with, where I went to do it and what I did thereafter. I had to tell them the events leading up to trying P. I had to tell them everything and then I had to tell them what I did after that. I've always been up front about it. I've never held things like that back from them.
John: You didn't hold anything back from them?
Macsyna: nothing back.
John: And so people said why didn't you tell them that Chris was with the babies when they got their injuries. In the coroner’s words he was in sole care of the babies. Did you tell the police that?
Macsyna: I've always told the police that. I left the property. I left them in the care of their father. My statements say it. I've continuously said it to police. I've had to give the same evidence in court and I've always, always maintained it.
John: Why did you leave the property? People said where was she while this was going on? Where was the twins’ mother?
Macsyna: I took off for a ride around Auckland. At the time I didn't have the means to go off overseas or go to Australia to have a holiday with family. I just needed time out and I needed time away and he needed time to be a father.
John: Had he not been a father?
Macsyna: Not actively. I took care of my sons. What I wanted from him was him to spend time with them and do the things that a father does. I don't think that's too much to ask. I just wanted him to do that.
John: I want to go back because you didn't really want the babies did you? It was an unplanned pregnancy.
Macsyna: It was an unplanned pregnancy. At the time I was studying to learn more about business and applications, business systems, applications. At the time I had my son Shane who wasn't quite a year old and I'd given birth to the twins and no they weren't a planned pregnancy. In all honesty I didn't want to have twins. I didn't want to be pregnant at that time. I only got myself back on track and the career path I thought would be suitable to me.
John: So your first reaction to having them was shock I suspect. I want to read you some of the evidence from the coroners report about when you bring the babies home. This is the evidence from Dr Hall. So you've got the twins home, they continue to flourish when they return home causing Dr Hall to say someone was doing a very good job. It was you he was talking about. You were caring for the twins. Yip another nurse visited your home on three occasions and recorded the twins were doing nicely, that the nursery was very well set up, the twins were putting on weight and in very good condition and there was never any mention of problems. Ms Diane Rainey, a social worker, recorded the twins being wrapped up like little sausages. On each occasion the twins bedroom is recorded as tidy and warm and the twins' mother recorded as respectful and helpful and yet people suggested you were the worst mother in the history of New Zealand.
Macsyna: After all this time, three people give a small testimony of small things they saw me do and I’m grateful to them they even took the time to say it as I’ve not been painted as a mother who has been capable of caring at all. I've been painted as a monster, somebody who didn't give a damn, who paid no attention.
John: Did you give a damn about those kids?
Macsyna: I loved my children. I loved my children. I just find it really hard to be able to express that love I have for my twins, for my sons while with the very same hand they're also dead. Nothing that anyone says or does will bring them back. They're dead and it's really hard to think of the love you have for your own children but that they’re also passed. It's horrible, it's conflicting, it's unfair. It's so many things but it's really, really important I say to people how much I loved my sons by how much work I've put into them regardless that it was never ever publicly known or shown that I did take any care at all. I'm not the world's best mother but I loved them and I'd do anything to protect my children.
John: One of the things that always confused me was when you came home and there's absolutely no doubt Chris lied to you. He said they were well and had been feeding and they hadn't been. But there was something wrong and you took them to the GP and the GP said take them to Middlemore. Chris was driving but he didn't drive them to Middlemore. He drove home. Why didn't you go to Middlemore?
Macsyna: Chris never wanted to go to the hospital. He refused. He swore. He said he needed time out. He said a number of things but he did not want to go to Middlemore.
John: So you got home, he got out of the car. What did you do?
Macsyna: I ran inside and grabbed their nappy bag that had their Plunket books and medical records and medication they'd been on and all the visits we'd had to the hospital I had a print off of them and I had them all in that nappy bag. I grabbed it, I came outside and Chris was gone. He deserted us. He left the children in the car and he was gone.
John: So what did you do then?
Macsyna: I lost it and I cried. I ran into the house and yelled and I ended up taking my sons myself and drove myself to Middlemore.
John: So you went back outside and you drove your kids to Middlemore?
Macsyna: Yip. By myself. Not knowing where their father went I drove myself and my sons to Middlemore.
John: What did you think of the extent of their injuries?
Macsyna: That he lied. In my mind he knew something had happened but he never told me. I knew that something major was wrong because of all the nurses putting them on a gurney, putting them in the operating room. They never said to me this is what they were doing but I know panicked people when I see panicked people and these nurses and these doctors were clearly in a panic and this was major and this wasn't just because they had a bad cough. Those were the first signs that something really big had happened to my sons. Those were the first signs and they didn't care to stop. They didn't even have time to stop. I was right beside them but they didn't even have time to stop and tell me or stop and tell me what was going on or what was happening with my sons. They didn't have time. They were just in running mode. If I could say they were rushing as fast as they could barely keeping from banging into each other. They were really rushing I suppose you call it frantic, you can tell when people are in a frenzy by their actions. It was scary. It was shocking. It was cold. Every other communication from thereafter became almost obsolete like I wasn't even a person they even needed to talk to. It was downhill, if I can say downhill from there, but obviously I learnt as time went on, as more doctors were involved, I learnt the extent of their injuries and I can still recall it like it happened just yesterday. I can remember their faces. I can remember what my sons were doing. I can remember their hands and their limbs. I can remember looking for the first time at my son Chris and seeing that his leg didn't quite look right. It was just hanging. Just hanging there. I can recall it all. I can recall it all and I wouldn't wish this on anybody
John: And then in the months and years afterwards not only did you have to go through all that but very publicly over and over and over again. Chris was found not guilty but people still blamed you.
Macsyna: Chris was found not guilty so it must be you Macsyna. These words have been said to me. I've read them on news feeds on Facebook. I've read scathing taunts on Facebook. I've heard this from extended family members who've had yelled at them and they've had it yelled at them because people out there in the public know I'm related to them. This is echoed past just me and my children and my husband. I'm talked about like I'm a thing, a disgusting filthy thing that's done wrong and that's not right…Vigilante justice. If I was in the time of Jesus Christ I would have been stoned to death. Stoned to death because of the way the public of New Zealand felt or thought they felt. I would have stood no chance but I am innocent. I am innocent of hurting my sons and this is really important for me to say to New Zealanders out there that this is really sad this day that a coroner's got to say this has got to stop. This is what my findings are. I feel really strongly about saying it because i don't want this to happen to someone else who is an innocent person in a situation murder-related or whatever. This just can't go on this way. This is just not how New Zealand should be. This is not the way that people should treat each other. This is bullshit.
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