Kyoto pull out slammed as 'cop out'
Sat, 10 Nov 2012 6:05p.m.
By Samantha Hayes
Climate scientists have slammed the Government's decision to pull out of the next phase of the Kyoto Protocol saying it'll have disastrous consequences.
But Climate Change Minister Tim Groser says Kyoto is “toxic” and simply won't work, defending the Government's decision to pull out of the protocol.
He says strategically it's best to be aligned with the world's big greenhouse gas emitters – China and the United States – and pulling out is the only way forward.
“There is zero possibility of the US joining Kyoto, so I think we're in the right space,” says Climate Change Minster Tim Groser. “I know other people have a different view. We are with the US. We are with China.”
Those two countries alone are responsible for 70 percent of the world's emissions, and without them, Mr Groser says, the 15-year-old climate treaty could be renamed the Kyoto cul-de-sac.
“If we don't get serious collective action, we are wasting our time,” says Mr Groser.
But critics have slammed the move because New Zealand can now set its own emission reduction targets that aren't legally binding.
“[It is] irresponsible, shameful and short-sighted,” says climate change Youth Delegate Simon Tapp. “This is a cop out. It's an avoidance of New Zealand's fair share. It's really damaging.”
The latest report found that if every country achieved its voluntary emission reduction targets, global temperatures would still rise by 4degC in the next 90 years. But actual reductions are much lower, so we're tracking towards a rise of 6degC, and climate scientists say that will have catastrophic consequences.
Professor Jim Salinger says Superstorm Sandy is just one example.
“We'd have massive food shortage and droughts in Africa,” says climate expert Professor Jim Salinger. “We'd have devastation of the coral reefs, and in New Zealand, our snow and ice cover on the Southern Alps would reduce to 10 percent of what we now have.”
“Well if indeed the more pessimistic scenarios turn out to be reality, I can tell you this: it won't make a single cent of difference what New Zealand does with 0.2 percent of emissions,” says Mr Groser.
So we're following the super powers, and scientists hope now that US president Barack Obama doesn't have to worry about re-election, he may have the will to tackle the unpopular issue of climate change.
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20/11/2012 12:31:42 a.m.
Mr February wrote:
So NZ goes from 'fast follower' to 'last follower'.
At least it gets all the deniers out of the caves.
17/11/2012 1:29:33 p.m.
“We'd have massive food shortage and droughts in Africa,” says climate expert Professor Jim Salinger, our sacked "Weather Forcaster" since when was he ever an expert? Only when being a drip under pressure. Who are all the other "experts" slamming the Govt? Tim, stick to your guns, better still, kill off this carbon tax fiasco and let us become the leading country once again by ridding ourselves of this Al Gore inspired crap tax that in fact will never cure anything other than the lacking of Billions of $'s in his - and his cronies - bank A/c's.
12/11/2012 11:09:26 p.m.
At last, with Tim Groser, a minister prepared to speak in a balanced way.
Considering global-warming has been flatlining for the last 15 years (a fact acknowledged by Jones/Trenberth) completely blows the theory of CO2 causation (as CO2ppm continued to climb over these 15 years).
But stating facts to enviros is pointless - their ideology continues to blind them
12/11/2012 7:25:16 p.m.
Unwanted, unnecessary hippy tax.
12/11/2012 2:09:07 p.m.
The "green gods" (pine trees) are not that green. researchers said that while planting trees is generally considered to be environmentally beneficial, pine plantations are in fact not that helpful. This is because pine plantations don't retain carbon as well as hardwood or natural pine forests.http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20060702015513data_trunc_sys.shtml
11/11/2012 6:01:19 p.m.
The man-made global warming club hasn't explained why Mars is warming up. Maybe its man made global warming on earth doing that too?That Mars is warming up suggests something at work at a solar system level. But in good science tradition, the global warmists exclude 99% of data on the basis it doesn't support their claims. It like saying the dog turned left, and the flea on its back caused it! While possible, its not likely. Now if you exclude all other possibilities then you can make the claim that the flea on the dogs back is giving direction, but its only by rejecting almost all data you can even make such a claim.Or take the IPCC from the UN. They tell you their panel has 2500 experts. What they dont tell you is only around 300 of that 2500 have a science background and the other 2200 hangers-on are political appointees to bang the political drum.If the UN is going to get serious about man made gloabl warming they need to sack the political appointees and employ people from the science area. They also need to stop excluding all data that doesn't support man-made global warming. Till they do this, the UN talking about man-made global warming is no better than their talk of Y2K. We all know how accurate those claims were.
11/11/2012 4:11:28 p.m.
Global warming is normal, yes, but not at the increasing rate in which our emissions are causing. It's not that we're causing it to warm up, but that we're causing it to warm up more than normal and at a faster rate which yes, does have a significant impact on the environment. Even if it is only 0.2 percent, it's still NZ standing up and saying "We at least are doing something!" They signed up to it in the first place, and are now pulling out because of the major countries? That is a cop out, and a shirking of duties. If they joined they should stick to it - they should have known at the beginning (and did) that it would be difficult in the UN to negotiate it with the larger producing countries.
Check what happened in the last ice age caused by volcanic eruptions - the earth almost never came out of it. We're doing the same thing only without the addition of a volcano.
11/11/2012 12:39:20 p.m.
Greenhouse emissions/pollution are of more danger to life on earth for its immediate health effects. World wide deep sample drillings and examination of tree rings show that climate changes are a natural occurrence as are extreme weather events.
The kyoto protocol in 1987was a knee-jerk to some scientific community inconclusive babble and it was a basic document with a list of annexes and a simple target of reduction of 5% greenhouse gasses.
Now an extensive overworked legalize document with no drilling down to the common man and hypocritical with 10,000 people attending conferences every year traveling by polluting transport mediums.
Now including carbon trading (Me pollute less, you pollute more, you pay me, nothing changes environmentally at all)
One environmental book I read had over 150 organisations dedicated to greenhouse activities.
Kyoto means absolute hypocritical feel good nothings. Taking care of the environment is a good thing regardless of officials running around spouting BS and joining "the club"
11/11/2012 12:36:51 p.m.
I feel dumber having read these comments. Leave the science to the scientists people (the ones who have legitimate qualifications Jonno).
11/11/2012 12:07:07 p.m.
It amazes me how many truely uninformed people exist, I think those with the biggest mouths though are those who stand to lose the most, aka, the biggest polluters in New Zealand.
Basic common sense 5th form science which most of us have taken tells us that more carbon dioxide and less trees = depleted ozone layer, higher temperatures.
Its not rocket science, its basic down to earth science.
Business has been paying its own scientists, or should I say paying for them to give them "anti climate change" studies in return the scientists who sell themselves out are promised more money for their own research projects.
Those screaming unfair, not true are generally the biggest polluters in the country looking for a way to escape from their responsibilities.
I see some absolute twaddle in the below posts.
A 15-year-old school student has developed a new test that could detect cancerous tumours before they become too advanced to treat.
Earlier this month a group of friends decided they wanted to see the great outdoors and raise a bit of awareness about the environment.
Parliament has passed amendments to the Crown Minerals Amendment Act which restrict anti-mining protests.
Super tornadoes are likely to happen more often as the world warms, according to NIWA.
New research suggests that you're likely to do worse at university if you have an inflated view of what you deserve.
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