John Minto, four others arrested at ASB Classic

OK if you're going to be so ridiculous as to claim that the Israelis have as much claim to the land that is currently Israel on the basis that the Jews were kicked out by the Romans 2000 years ago, then the Welsh have the same right to land that is now England.

And, dare I say it, Maori have a right to all of New Zealand too by your logic. (Maori actually have a much greater claim for compensation, given the government/people that stole their land still exists, whereas Israel can't make any claim against the Roman Republic).

If you want two want call people names, you're both idiots if you think Israel had peace in mind during the Oslo period. Like I said before, settler numbers DOUBLED during the Oslo period. The Oslo Accords, according to Shimon Peres, one of the Israeli "architects of peace" said," The deal kept the following in Israeli hands: 73% of the occupied territories, 97 percent of the security, and 80 percent of the water."

He said this to reassure the Israeli public that Israel wasn't really giving up anything. In fact, on the West Bank, Israel established a number of military forts and built roads to be used exclusively by Israeli settlers.

Ehud Barak, the Israeli PM, then made an offer to Yasser Arafat of some land to finally agree to peace. This land was a strip of desert outside the Gaza strip which the Israelis used to dump toxic waste. The deal gave the Palestinians no access to their international borders. Palestinians were also still to be forced to accept Israeli military orders which overrode any laws they made for themselves.

Yeah, Israel tried really hard for peace. There's nothing more they could've done.

Have either of you got facts or arguments that can't be easily dealt with? And stop telling me to become more informed when neither of you have posted much beyond "your view is too simplistic."

This idiot Alex seems to have taken over by writing the same garbage over and over. You don't seem to want to face the reality that the Middle East issue is far more complex than just saying the Israelis are the agressors. The land has been disputed for thousands of years and now you seem to think that the Palestinians have more rights because they are the latest to be kicked out. The Israelis believe it to be their homeland as do the Palastinians. The Muslim terrorists are the ones that do not wish to live along side another religious people. You are right there are way more Palastinians being killed but it is always as a response and in an effort for Israel to live peacefully. Stop the muslim terrorism and i bet you would see peace after a cooling down period.

Minto is as ignorant as you Alex if he thinks he can solve the issue with his bully boy tactics against a young tennis player.

And if you seem so determined to yell about the All Blacks being useless then go for it. Real patriotic idiot, do you burn flags too?

Alex, you may wish to study the conflict a bit better. If you do, you will find out that the Palestinians do not want to negotiate Peace. You will find that Oslo was met with a string of suicide bombing attacks, or had you forgotten those? Convenient Aye? But by all means, stay in your coccoon, you still have not denounced the violence by the way, and I suspect you never will. It is typical how radicals operate. I had already given my views on violence quite a number of postings ago but I know by now that you do not read any postings properly. Not mine, not any of the other entries, who you have tried to ridicule because they do not share your views, and rightfully so.
All you do is attack - all I have done is ask for you to dig a little deeper, get a bit better informed. I cannot communicate with you the history of the last 3,500 years because that is not feasible in this forum. I have asked to to denounce violence, as I can only assume that you support Global Peace and Justice, but instead your answer continues to be "I have never said that killing people is OK".That is not the same as denouncing violence. A very clever attempt by you to fudge the issues as you do, but that is your right. It is a shame that you are so ill informed.
For me, I maintain my call to deport John Minto, unless he apologises to the Israeli tennis player, and pay her reparation for emotional harm.FOr you, good luck with the last word.

"I say deport him for being a distuberer of the Peace, and affecting the rights of other people."

I'm pretty sure he's a New Zealand citizen. You can't deport citizens.

Seriously you've done nothing but strawman, I don't need to distance myself from any violence because I've never said "killing people is OK." Are you going to say it's not OK for Israelis to occupy Palestinian land, force them to starve and kill them "accidentally"?

The Palestinian reaction to Israel is the same as any group of people would have to their land being invaded, which makes it understandable. That means when both sides agree to a ceasefire, Israel is the side that needs to make concessions, not the Palestinians.

Alex, even now you still have not distanced yourself from the violence. It must be clear by now that this complex issue of known facts for over 3,500 years cannot be solved by that idiot Minto. His actions disrupting a sports event, and in particular addressing a lone tennis player have been despicable.
He could have taken his protest to the Israeli embassy, or any other political forum, but instead he chooses to be a lowly coward. I say deport him for being a distuberer of the Peace, and affecting the rights of other people.

And I'm saying you're being ridiculous because you're putting words in my mouth. The stuff you've quoted doesn't ring a bell and I don't see that I've written it anywhere.

"You do not seem to understand that things are not as simple as you make them out to be."

You can keep saying this but you need to point out why what I'm saying is wrong, rather than rely on me or anyone else just believing you at face value.

"None of this makes killing on either side OK. Israel is the agressor; therefore the Palestinian reaction is understandable."

Uh I said this? It's not a ringing endorsement of killing Israelis, or anyone. Not sure but you might've mistaken me for someone else.

Alex - are you being confronted with a bit of reality you do not feel comfortable with?, to put it in your own words as below. And if you read yourself further back, you will find the appropriate references to the points I made. Furthermore, even now you do not distance yourself from the violence but hide behind saying that I am being ridiculous.
You do not seem to understand that things are not as simple as you make them out to be.

"Interesting you go back to the Oslo period, Alex - have you cared to go back to the Roman period and before?"

And I find it extremely bizarre that you find referring to recent history is as ridiculous as referring to 2000 years ago. People who were alive then are still alive today and continue to be affected. What are you trying to say, exactly?

"But shame on you for promoting violence - I take it that is what you meant when you tried to justify the missiles going in, "not causing as many casualties"."

When have I promoted violence or justified killing? I've never said "it's OK for Palestinians to kill Israelis." You seem to think it's OK for Israelis to occupy Palestinian land, though.

And I'm going back to Oslo because that's when Israel stopped "controlling" Gaza (which is very arguable, given Israel still controls all migration in and out, as well as exports). What history are you going from?

"But for you in the meantime to justify the immediate use of missiles into Israel just shows that you do not stand for Peace and Justice either."

I haven't said this anywhere either, you're being ridiculous.