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Statement from the ADHB regarding Vitamin C

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Wed, 15 Sep 2010 3:15p.m.

The CPC reported that it could not recommend that ADHB implement Vitamin C therapy

The CPC reported that it could not recommend that ADHB implement Vitamin C therapy

No evidence exists to confidently say that high-dosage Vitamin C therapy is either safe or effective, ADHB Chief Medical Officer Dr Margaret Wilsher said today.

In light of recent publicity on the issue, Dr Wilsher said she had asked Auckland City Hospital’s Clinical Practice Committee (CPC) to review the efficacy of high-dose Vitamin C in the treatment of influenza and other critical illness.

“In response, the CPC reported that it could not recommend that ADHB implement this therapy,” Dr Wilsher said.

“The CPC found no evidence that would allow it to say high-dose Vitamin C treatment is either safe or effective.

“In fact, the lack of evidence resulted in this treatment recording a score of zero – the lowest score ever given to a health technology assessed by the CPC.

“Only a suitably-constructed and approved clinical trial could establish the facts.

“The CPC noted published literature that high cumulative doses or high intravenous doses of Vitamin C had been associated with renal toxicity.

“The Committee was concerned that a high proportion of influenza patients treated in the ICU by Auckland District Health Board had co-existent renal impairment or failure.

“Given the possibility of additional renal toxicity from Vitamin C therapy, CPC members agreed that - until more is known about the safety profile of high-dose intravenous therapy – that such therapy only be delivered within the context of a clinical trial.”

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20 Apr 2012 06:28a.m.

Peter wrote:

Richie, Bjelakovic states that vitamin C does not harm (well, hist study only reviews colon cancer mortality, should You know). Pru bases his conclusions on pure speculations that have not been proven. Safety of vitamin C is scientifically proven. Curhan (1996,1999) followed 85557 and 45619 healthy people for 14 years - NO increase of kidney stones; quite oposite, highest vit. C group (over 1,5g daily) had LOWER incidence than the low vit. C group. Simon (1997) got similar results. Why haven't ADHB asked FNB/IOM? This american authority, reviewing all safety data ever, concludes that vitamin C is SAFE for general population. The ONLY proven side effect is a mild diarrhea, for some people with doses over 3g daily, orally. With kidney or iron problems or G6PD deficiency, caution is needed. So this is official. (The National Academies Press, 2000. ISBN 0309069491) Make no mistake, IOM is far from being a vitamin friend, so if they say there is no proof of harm, I wonder how ADHB managed to get the oposite.

31 Jan 2012 01:44p.m.

Richie wrote:

Optimus - here you go: Bjelakovic, G., Nikolova, D., Simonetti, R. G., & Gluud, C. (2008). Systematic review: primary and secondary prevention of gastrointestinal cancers with antioxidant supplements. Alimentary Pharmacology & Therapeutics, 28(6), 689–703 (Vitamin C doesn't prevent GI cancers but actually increases death) Bjelakovic, G., Nikolova, D., Gluud, L. L., Simonetti, R. G., & Gluud, C. (2007). Mortality in randomized trials of antioxidant supplements for primary and secondary prevention: systematic review and meta-analysis. JAMA : the journal of the American Medical Association, 297(8), 842–857. doi:10.1001/jama.297.8.842 (antioxidant treatment increases mortality) Vitamin C Intoxication and Hyperoxalemia in Chronic Hemodialysis Patients Cesar Pru, John Eaton, Carl Kjellstrand Nephron 1985;39:112-116 (DOI: 10.1159/000183353 (Vitamin C overingestion causes hyperoxalaemia & contributes to vascular disease) Not very hard to find. Try pubmed. No conspiracy to see here. Move on.

15 Dec 2011 05:39a.m.

optimus prime wrote:

Could the ADHB please publish their source for renal toxicity so that we may scrutinise it? I can't find it. Given that this simple intervention, used worldwide, has the potential to save many lives and reduce public drug expenditure vastly: when can we expect to see a trial, of the kind of rigour and credibility that only a government funded study can accomplish?

23 Sep 2011 01:21a.m.

Harry Kaye wrote:

(part two) One: Normally my bowel tolerance, say with a cold, is about 8 grams. Without a cold, just for doing a flush when healthy, is about 5 or 6 grams. But during acute opiate withdrawal, it was 13 grams. That says something right there, but let's just ignore that anyway. Two: ALL withdrawal symptoms OTHER than loose stools (which no longer felt as if I'd eaten hot peppers ONLY for a week) completely disappeared. No hot/cold. No freezing extremities. No extreme boredom/anxiety/depression. No shaking. That's a real result, with no other medication. From my experience, it simply cannot be denied. And was WELL WORTH trying. Now consider for a moment an addict, someone who was willing to put almost anything into their bodies. I have discussed how well this worked for me with others dealing with opiate addiction and dependance, and they were "concerned" with the "danger" of megadosing C. I had to laugh, because some of these people were injecting themselves with lord knows what for YEARS.... suddenly concerned with a vitamin. The truth is, anyone wanting this, discussing this, or even presenting solid evidence is going to come up against unrealistic concerns COMPARED to the alternatives (addiction, death). The main difference between vit C and a "passing bus" is that the passing bus isn't.... vitamin C .... and has NO research available related to it. And I think to suggest anyone who disputes that as a lack of understanding as to the idea of correlation not equaling causation is disingenuous if not flat out harmful. I am now 5 months clear of opioids with only one single treatment. Megadose vitamin C. And without it, it was intolerable. This isn't a "conspiracy" by the medical community or "big pharma". It's not that complicated. It's arrogance, pure and simple. Old as sin. C works. It just does. No offense.

23 Sep 2011 01:07a.m.

Harry Kaye wrote:

(part one) I wanted to address a couple of things commented on here, hopefully without being too insulting or ruffling too many feathers. I see both sides claiming both "no studies showing effectiveness" and "numerous studies showing effectiveness", yet neither side is truly willing to look into the evidence and report back their findings. What we really need is an investigative body that is neutral to look into the studies and report the results. Instead of relying on people who just make statements. Secondly, I would like to report my own personal findings. You can choose to assume I'm making it up, or not. It's up to you, but the fact remains that what I went through happened. About a year ago I found myself physically dependent on opioids (for pain). Withdrawal almost killed me, mostly due to extremely elevated blood pressure during acute withdrawal. Pain led me back to the opioids a few months later and I found myself feeling like an addict, which was unacceptable to me. I tried again to stop, and failed. I reduced my dosage as much as possible and decided to look up some remedies and alternatives to BP medication and things like xanax for the extreme depression and anxiety. I found a few things and tried them, with little to no measurable result. Then I found a reference to a study done at the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic in San Francisco (70's?) demonstrated that Buffered Vitamin C could offset withdrawal symptoms for stimulants and opiates and reduce withdrawal symptoms by 90% in outpatients. Now, I am familiar with taking megadoses of C. I understand bowel tolerance (you reach a level that causes loose stool, then pull back and stick to that dose when it wears off), so I decided to give it a shot. (cont part two)

19 Sep 2011 06:33a.m.

jim wrote:

Hey Vitamin C works and is an antiviral/antibiotic all round necessity for each cell in the body. The problem is Pharma can make no money on it. The other problem is that most medical trained people have their heads up there youknowwhat because they feel so good on becoming a doctor. However they have good intentions but are like the above comments blissfully ignorant for so called intelligent people. Let's remember this, the Vitamin C debate has been ongoing for over 100yrs and still no one from the medical side has done a clinical trial!! Why not? Let's also look back at the arrogance and ignorance of medicine where the cure for scurvy was not implemented for many many years- where women who were mad or hysterical had their wombs removed!!(hysterectomy) Where headaches and blood letting, drilling into heads was common practice and took many years to change. How many times has your GP looked up the drugs in his BNF pharma produced book and compared contraindications. Nutritionists need to work with modern medicine as they have some very good traits. Yet modern medicine is afraid to work with nutritionists, because they will be doing themselves out of a lot of money. After all people are dying to keep doctors alive. The first thing about medicine is "do no harm" mega doses of vitamin C do no harm. Too the Skeptics- remember Linus Pauling the only two time Nobel Prize winner ever!!!he achieved more than the entire CDC will ev3r do.All the CDC are doing is protecting their financial interest, they don't care if people die, just so long as the money keeps rolling in. Exactly the same for vaccinations- medicine all know that some kids will die from the actual vaccine. But a minimal amount deemed justifiable for the greater good(and justifiable for the right profit margin)-unless it's your kid of course. My view is try the Vitamin C, i've not heard of thousands/any death from too much vitamin C. However prescribed drugs kill thousands every year.

16 Oct 2010 01:20a.m.

majkinetor wrote:

"The CPC noted published literature that high cumulative doses or high intravenous doses of Vitamin C had been associated with renal toxicity." Yeah, right. If you take as an example Aspirin, and look into its potential side effects, you can see stuff like black and bloody stool, hearing loss, persistent stomach pain, etc... The point is that any substance ingested have cost to benefit ratio, cost being money price and toxicity. In the case of Vitamin C this ratio is very small unlike any other substance. The fact that it exists has nothing to do with its potential to cure. Given enough substance, anything can be toxic, water included. There are more then 50 000 Vitamin C research projects. Not enough megadoses tho. So, if medical "professionals" want to "prove" megadoses don't cure, why I don't see at least 10 research projects done via different means and techniques using 10-100 grams of C/day. I am sure there will be lots of people who are willing to act like testing dummies on their own responsibility.

20 Sep 2010 08:34a.m.

DM wrote:

Just because it is a plant/herb/natural doesn't mean that is good for you.
I work in the healthcare sector and am case manager for a few hundred long term patients. A significant number of patients, growing in numbers, try so called herbal medicine/alternative medicine. I have not seen one case where they have worked. In fact many of these have interfered with their existing medications. All that the patient has gained is an empty wallet. It is not the pharma companies that are the culprits, it is these so called caring herbalists that are the real crooks/thieves, praying on innocent and desperate people.
All I hear in this discussion are people that do not really understand medicine arguing for remedies that are not tested and do not work.

19 Sep 2010 04:23p.m.

Brett wrote:

Most compelling story & follow up i have seen in a long time 60 minutes NZ. I want to see more interesting shows like this Vitamin C story. Scurvy claimed the lives of many thousands before limes etc were finally given to British sailors.
Medicine/pharmaceuticals are about profit and is slowly losing credability with the public. Governments need to address this because future Governments won't be able to afford health care for their citizens it's a flawed and corrupt model. It's shameful people have to get lawyers envolved to get hospitals to try an inexpensive treatment verses removal of life support.
Skeptics base their judgements on science but what the skeptics don't realise is science has been hijacked by vested interests. Skeptics are ignorant pawns of vested interests.
I hope Tony Ryall amends legislation to allow Vitamin C as an option for patients in NZ hospitals. It may not save every life but it just might be your loved one dying and for a few it may mean life instead of death.

17 Sep 2010 08:05p.m.

Fred wrote:

Wendy: It is not arrogant to point out that numerous studies into vitamin C have shown no significant effect in curing diseases such as influenza and the common cold. The bus analogy clearly went over many people's heads. He was trying to point out that correlation does not necessarily equal causation, which was evidentl being glossed over by an arrogant journalist trying to throw doubt on the issue. If we administered 10mls of vinegar and the patient recovered, is this sufficient evidence to say the vinegar did it? If 10 people recovered would this be evidence for vinegar's efficacy? I would say no because we don't have the context. We need to run trials on 1000s of patients to be confident X causes Y. Looking at the miraculous cases (which is obviously more newsworthy than the failures) is a bad way to decide whether a treatment works or not.