'THE NATION'
ANDREW LITTLE
Interviewed by DUNCAN GARNER
DUNCAN The polls and the headlines have all told the same story these last few weeks, Labour and its Leader Phil Goff are struggling to get any traction and that should concern its President Andrew Little, the current head of the EPMU. Now there's widespread speculation that he's about to stand for parliament, and many do see him as potentially a future leader of the Labour Party, and he's my guest this morning. Mr Little, thanks for joining us.
I just want to get straight to the point here about New Plymouth, there's been speculation in the past 48 hours that you will be standing there as the next Labour candidate, what can you tell us?
ANDREW LITTLE – Labour Party President
Yes I think the speculation has been largely generated by TV3, but the point is there's no secret that I intend to get into parliament next year for Labour, I've made no secret of that. Obviously there's two ways of doing that, in a seat or on the list. There is the last remaining group of seats left, that the party is calling for nominations. New Plymouth is amongst them. I think I can say that I'm interested in New Plymouth. I have connections there but I've yet to finalise the decision on that.
DUNCAN It's a pretty obvious one for you though isn't it, because there has been speculation about Rongotai in Wellington, but that is taken by the Deputy Leader of the Party and she's confirmed there. You do have links and roots in New Plymouth, so that’s obvious isn't it that this is the seat you'd stand for because you do want to get to parliament?
ANDREW Well I would be motivated by what I think I can best do for the party. New Plymouth is a seat held by the National Party with 105 votes. It's a seat that’s been long held by Labour with Harry Duynhoven with good majorities. I know from union involvement there and the union members there that it is a seat that I think Labour can win, with the right candidate, and those are all considerations that I'm thinking about at the moment.
DUNCAN But you could easily go in on the List couldn’t you as a list only. Why is it important because you've clearly signalled that you want a seat. So why is a seat so important rather than as going in on the List.
ANDREW Oh it's not just a question about having a seat, I mean I'm keen to get into parliament to assist the Labour cause and the Labour caucus. Whether it's a seat or it's on the List is neither here nor there to me. I think we do still have a culture at the moment in our politics of thinking that somehow having a seat is better than being on the List. I think our List MPs generally and I think of the Labour List MPs are all pretty hard working MPs, and there are things you can do as a List MP that is hard to do as an electorate MP where you’ve got electorate responsibilities. So I'm not particularly fussed about it one way or the other. I think that however to win back seats like New Plymouth and other provincial seats, you do need to have the right people, there, the right sort of person. I think there are some things that I could offer New Plymouth if the local party organisation is willing to have me.
DUNCAN It seems like a yes to me, so when are you likely to make that decision publicly.
ANDREW Oh I'd expect it'll be in the next few weeks.
DUNCAN Okay just looking at Labour and its performance in the polls, why are you struggling to get traction as a party do you think?
ANDREW Oh I think if you look at parties that are freshly in opposition, where we are polling is actually very good. If you have a look at Labour in opposition during the 1990s, we were polling in the low to mid 20s. We've been hovering around 30 or just a fraction above it. I think in only one or two polls we've come in just under 30, but around about 30 is not bad for a party freshly in opposition, in a government that’s been riding a lengthy honeymoon, but I think things are beginning to come unstuck at the moment. I think if you have a look and see what's happening with GST, rises with other cost rises, the fact that even though there's been taxcuts now that are due to come in in October, clearly those taxcuts aren't going to compensate people for GST plus all the other costs that are rising, and I think we're getting to a point where by the end of this year, at t he beginning of next year, people are going to look around and say well gee am I much better off, or no I'm not. Now Phil Goff has been talking about these issues going back to last year, and I think all his messages have been right on track.
DUNCAN People, are also going to say to you Mr Little and your party, that it's about relevancy too, and they may say look National's a bit off track here with GST or whatever, but what about your party. I just want to quote you from your conference speech in 2009. "Ours is a party of ideas, the party more willing than any other to step up to the real challenges of the day, the party prepared to make a real difference to the lives of people." People want to see ideas from Labour, they're not seeing it right now are they?
ANDREW Yeah, and I think the fundamental idea what this government doesn’t have, is what is going to happen to people's incomes. Because you see I think what the latest round of taxcuts will expose is the big myth that you can't improve people's lives just by cutting taxes, and watching all these other costs go up. Our big problem in New Zealand is that we don’t have any mechanism to see incomes, to see wages and salaries rising at a consistent basis that’s consistent with productivity, that meets the competitive needs that we have, that stops people in New Zealand having to go to Australia and beyond, to get a decent living, to get what they think they're worth. That’s our big problem. This government doesn’t have an answer to that. Labour has been talking about that. We've been talking about improving the manufacturing sector, our export sector. We've been talking about a monetary policy that promotes and encourages investment. The sort of stuff that Phil has been talking about in his keynote speeches in the last year or 18 months, have been dealing with those issues. Now we are getting to the point now where pp re realising that actually what is going on at the moment is improving their living standards, isn't helping their families and their households get ahead, and Labour will be on the front foot on that issue.
DUNCAN Well one of those issues is legislating for wage increases this campaign for $15 an hour. As a union leader, but also as a Labour Party President, do you agree with legislating for a $15 an hour pay rate?
ANDREW Legislating for a minimum wage is not the answer to the incomes, or the wages problem that we have. When you're talking about skilled workers, you're talking about fitters, electricians, plumbers, who are already on the 30 to 40 dollar an hour rate, the 15 dollar an hour issue isn't going to help them. That will help low income earners and that is important, and you know we've had this neoliberal economics for the last 30 years that said no there shouldn’t be any minimum wage, and you’ve got Business New Zealand and the Business Round Table arguing vociferously to suppress minimum wages. But the reality is what we have at the moment is a system where if you get a wage increase it is dependent on one or two things, either your in a union that’s bargains collectively, or it's the generosity of your employer. There are a large number of people who are dependent on the beneficence of their employer, on whether or not they get a wage increase. It's nothing to do with the contribution they make to wealth creation. It's nothing to do with their improvements to productivity, it's entirely left up to the employer. Now we need to have a system that addresses that issue, otherwise we will continue to bleed good people, good Kiwis, leaving New Zealand, because they can't make a decent fist of it here.
DUNCAN I just want to move on to potentially if you go into government. Labour's got a problem with the Maori Party right now. We had Te Ururoa Flavell on the programme a few weeks ago, he said he doesn’t really care much for Labour right now, that National's giving them everything they need. Don’t you need to make the Maori Party a special project, either you our Phil Goff, or someone senior in the party, and get them back on side, because without them do you accept you’ve got a problem governing?
ANDREW Well I think you want to be careful about the individuals and the personalities who front for the Maori Party at the moment, and then there is the constituency that the Maori Party claims to represent. The Labour Party has a number of Maori MPs too, who are out there on the marae ...
DUNCAN What about your relationship with the Maori Party, it's a problem at the moment isn't it? I mean I work at parliament, they do not get on that well.
ANDREW Yeah, and I understand that, and the issue for Labour is less the Maori Party and more Maori people and what is happening with Maori people, and what is being delivered to them from this government, because just talking about flags and those sorts of things isn't going to help them. You talk about Whanau Ora which originally was talked about in terms of a one billion dollar project, now 134 million dollar project, I mean there are not a lot of benefits actually flowing to ...
DUNCAN Do you think you'll ever get the seats off them again, I mean you’ve gotta work with these people don’t you?
ANDREW Well we have to work with our Maori constituency, our Maori members, our Maori MPs and with the Maori electorate, the wider Maori electorate out there, who still vote for Labour in droves in terms of the party vote. So we still have that support out there. Ideally you would like to think that given the issues that the Maori Party typically deal with, what their kaupapa are, that we would have a constructive relationship with them. But it's a two way street, if they don’t want to have that relationship, if Te Ururoa Flavell's statement is correct that he doesn’t particularly care, there's not a great deal that the Labour Party can do about that, but what we can do is continue to work on those issues that are important actually to working Maori people, working Maori families, and to lift their living standards. That’s what we're committed to doing.
DUNCAN I just want to look at leadership. What's wrong with Phil Goff at the moment, why is he not connecting – 5% in our latest poll, what's wrong with him?
ANDREW I mean I can't explain that, I get to work reasonably closely with Phil and I see Phil, the way he handles caucus, the way he handles the joint parliamentary party meetings. I see him with the groups that I get to mix with him. Phil does connect with people when he talks to them, I see their responses, I see what Phil has said. Phil talk about the issues that are important to the people who we represent and we advocate for, people who are struggling in the current climate, people who are confused about why when the government says ACC is about to return a two billion surplus, the ACC levies have gone up. Phil is connecting with those people.
DUNCAN And do you see yourself as a future Labour Party leader, if you lose the election in 2011, the caucus comes to you and there's a section of caucus says look we'd like you to stand, would you?
ANDREW I think the question is a bit silly frankly, I'm not even in parliament. But the thing is, the only commitment you can make, the only ambition I think you can have before you get to parliament is to do the best you can.
DUNCAN Could you rule out putting your name forward in the future Mr Little?
ANDREW No this is the standard line of questioning. The ambition that I have is to do the best I can, if I have the privilege of serving in parliament, is for the people who put me there, the party, if there's an electorate then the electorate, and obviously ultimately for all the people of New Zealand in whose best interests every MP is there to serve. So that’s the commitment and ambition that I have, and that’s frankly where it stops and starts.
DUNCAN Alright, Andrew Little thank you very much for coming to the studio this morning, we appreciate your time.